Curious about how to have six-figure launches? How about grow your podcast by MILLIONS?
In this interview with the incredible, Cathy Heller from Don't Quit Your Day Job Podcast we learn exactly that. And so so so much more.
Cathy shares her inspiring story along with invaluable tactical training for us on course and program launch strategy. She goes deep on podcast audience growth and how to scale a podcast, fast. She gives so many secrets that you can apply immediately.
You're gonna love this interview!
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Full transcription available at the bottom of this blog post.
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Did you know I am a PODCAST COACH? Yep! I help women launch podcasts.
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I launched my podcast in 2018 after searching for a way to scale my coaching business and grow my following in a faster, more authentic way. I decided on podcasting because I have kids (aka. video isn't my jam), and because audio is growing insanely fast and I saw an emerging trend. Last, because committing to a podcast was my way of showing up consistently and dedicating myself to my mission.
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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPTION:
Welcome to maybe one of my favorite interviews of all time with none other than the superstar, Kathy Heller, herself who hosts the podcast. Don't keep your day job. Ladies Kathy's podcast has 15 million downloads brain explosion. And that is why I was so excited when her producer reached out for us to do a podcast walk together because I thought, Oh my gosh, if I can pick Kathy's brain on how she grew this brand, you guys in like three to four years, how she exploded her podcast, how she got 15 million downloads and really dig into who this woman, the woman is behind the numbers. I knew it was a huge resounding yes, so, so grateful, grateful. So grateful that I got to have this collaboration with Kathy and y'all like, Kathy's show is awesome. She does. She has these featured conversations with creative entrepreneurs, like the actress, Jenna Fisher, we all know Barbara Corcoran and more.
I mean, she's truly, truly someone that we can all strive to look up to. And she's also a phenomenal coach and she's sparking a movement for every soul to really add their gift to the world, which you guys know I am so, so passionate about. So you're going to love this interview. I hope you learn so much. And before we get into the interview, I just wanted to quickly remind you guys that you can still access the Pinterest masterclass, which is a limited time offer where I have a 96 minute masterclass available for you because of what we're going through right now, because of the extra time that we have to pour into our businesses. And because of what I know Pinterest can do for you and your business, this is the complete Pinterest strategy set up an optimization course, mini class for online entrepreneurs.
You guys, Pinterest is critical to growing your business. It brings in 78% of my website traffic. If you pair a, a marketing platform, a visual marketing platform like Pinterest with your blog and podcast, I dare you. I dare you to not have success. Massive success a year from now with traffic and growing your leads organically for free. You know, guys, Pinterest is driving traffic forever. Once you understand a pinning strategy, keyword strategy and all the how tos of Pinterest, like I'm going to give you all of that in this class. Okay? And here's another crazy stat. It takes me and my VA less than 45 minutes a week. And it's driving 78% of my website traffic. This is literally the Holy grail of marketing. And I just want to simply give you what you can do in this, in this amazing platform. It's going to give you everything you need and nothing you don't guys.
This is not an advanced masterclass. This is for those of you that are busy moms that want to get in there, do the thing and get out and have it work for inside my masterclass. You'll learn why Pinterest Pinterest set up profile and pin SEO and keyword strategy board set up an optimization group, board access, direct pinning, how to create pins and camp. I have a whole bonus training for you on that automated pinning using tailwind analytics and more. This is for the time conscious busy mompreneur who wants to drive tons of traffic organically every day, without wasting tons of time doing it. Let me help you conquer Pinterest and generate more website views leads, and ultimately revenue. Woo. My name on it. It is traffic traffic. Okay. Go to Pinterest masterclass.gra.com for more info. And you guys for the month of April can take 20 bucks off so you can get it for $77. I mean c'mon and girl Pinterest masterclass.gra.com. Your coupon firstname.lastname@example.org. And your coupon code is Lola. Save $20 down the leg. Tommy.
Welcome back. It's the mompreneur mastermind show where we choose to run insanely successful, passive income businesses that light us up while consuming iced coffee, braless and flawless, and maybe breaking it down to some gangster rap while our kids aren't looking, we just become best friends. Yes, yes we did. Hey, I'm Stephanie gas. Six-Figure corporate exec turned top 1% network marketer turn podcaster. I believe when we let God light our path, we experienced true miracles. Welcome sister. Let's get pumped up for today's show with Cathy Heller. And you guys heard about her on the interview and hello, who doesn't know who Cathy Heller is. We all love her podcast. And I'm so excited, Kathy, that you're here with us in these crazy times. Welcome. It is a really a crazy time. It's true, but I have to say it feels like such a gift to hang out with you.
You are such a bright star in this darkness right now. And I just love that my life, my work leads me to people like you, who are putting out a lantern for other people in the deepest way and how fun that we can like maybe do some of that together right now. I know I'm S I feel the same about you. I'm so grateful for this conversation. So start with, I want to know Kathy, what, who is Kathy like five years ago? What were you doing that led you into podcasting and into this huge brand that you have now? It's such a great question, because when you say that I'm like, yeah, five years ago, I didn't have a podcast.
I didn't listen to podcasts. I didn't do any of the things that I do now. None of them, except for being a mom, I was still doing that. Right. and so, yeah, I was a songwriter actually. That's the world I come from. I was writing songs for shows, like switched at birth and one tree Hill and Coca Cola commercials and American girl movies. Isn't that amazing? It was fun. Yeah. I got into that because before that I had a record deal and I got dropped from the label and then had a bunch of day jobs. And then I was like, I don't really want a day job. I want to do something creative. And I found my way into licensing music. So what happened is I did that for a decade. I wrote music for TV and film, and I liked it and I became a mom and I had one kid and then the second kid, and then we bought like our cute little Spanish house in LA.
And I was writing music and making a few hundred thousand dollars a year writing music. And it was like, that was such a nice life. And then you know, God sort of brings you new opportunities and you, if you're, if your eyes are open, sometimes you say yes, and you find more purpose. And where you're led that you never intended, right. Was to find you. So there was a lot of knocking on the door. Hey, Kath, I'm a song writer. I've never made any money with my music. I wonder if you could show me how to do that. And in the beginning, I would say, Oh, sure. Why don't you come over? Like, bring me a Starbucks. And for the, you know, for the, for the cost of a coffee, I'll just sit with you. So I was doing that a lot at my dining room table and it was fun.
And then my husband was like, you know, you're, you have two kids. You don't have a nanny. You're writing music. You're going to the studio. And I don't know how often you should be giving all of that time away because it's coming at a cost for us. I was like, all right. And then one day I said, Oh, I'll put everyone together. I'll have all those songwriters come over on a Sunday afternoon for a couple hours from like three to five. And they came over and they loved it. And they said, can we do this again? And I was like, alright. And I didn't know what I was doing at all. I was just sharing what I knew. And people actually, there are times where you do something and you don't realize that it's such a thing, but other people are like, what you take for granted that you do.
I would never think to do that. And one of the big things for me, Stefanie, was that I had sort of realized that business was not a hobby. And the difference was people needing things like a hobby is like, I like it. Great. You don't have to care. But a business is all about the empathy for the person you're serving, because you're asking them to pay you, which means you need to know what they want. And so I thought, I thought to myself, wow, that is interesting. How so many artists, they don't think about what other people want. And if we were to actually care, we stand out. Because instead of just saying like, well, here's what I'm making, buy it, buy it. It's like, well, what do you want? And that really is the heart of any business. So what's the pain point, what problem to solve.
And I realized that what actually helped me in my song writing was relevant to anybody's endeavor, which was, I was asking people at CBS and Fox and paramount, what story are you? Oh, calf. Actually, we're writing a movie about sisters and we need a song about that. Or we need a song about coming home. I'm like, Oh, cool. I can do that. Right. And then you get to use your talent to actually do something that someone needs. And now you get to have fun, be yourself, but also make something that somebody wants. So that was a big breakthrough. And I had a lot to teach people. Like I realized that I had a lot to teach people around asking that question. And then specifically for music, like what were the things that they wanted? Were there any themes where there's anything consistent about it? And it wound up being something that all these songwriters just kept telling me that they were so happy I was doing.
And then one songwriter called me and she was a friend of somebody who I was teaching. And she said, I don't live near you. And I can't come to your house on a Sunday. Can you teach this online? And I'm like, no, I don't know what that means. I don't know what a funnel is. I know what a webinar is. I was completely removed from that entire universe. I didn't have a single email list. I didn't have an Instagram. It wasn't my world. I didn't even know it existed. Right. It's like an all it's like finding out that there's Eskimos and you go, Oh, what's that right? You've only seen sunshine. Like you don't know. So I decided to ask the question, how could I begin to even understand that? And I, I put up a class online. I was pregnant with my third at the time.
This is four years ago. Cause my daughter is three and a half. And I thought, well, I'm to have the baby in September. So I'll try to get this done before. And I did it really scrappy, really messy, no slide shows, no understanding of funnels, just like very raw, straight to camera kind of thing. And my very first launch that summer was $147,000. And I started helping more people that I never could have helped in, in, in my living room. And then my second launch, which was once the baby was born a few months after she was born, I did my second launch. I made 440 grand. And then I started to get the people from the first class saying, I'm already now getting music place. One guy got a song in a Starbucks ad. And then I started to create a better and better program.
And we started doing million dollar launches a couple of times a year. And now I was making a couple million plus still writing, plus getting more opportunities plus passing some of those opportunities over to my songwriters who were in my programs. So I was actually able to help them get some work. And the testimonials did the work like that, sold it for me. And then one of the girls in my song writing class said, Cathy Heller, this is not about song writing. This is about how to build a business. This is about people. You're teaching us how to cold email and write personalized sweet emails. You're teaching us how to ask the customer what they need. You're teaching us how to show up and get resilient and work on our craft without getting in our own way. You should start a podcast. And I thought, what the heck?
I already have three kids. My youngest was like tiny. I was like, I already have three kids and so much on my plate. I may as well do it now. There's never going to be a good time. I did. And we are now three years into the podcast and my daughter's three and a half and we are hitting 15 million downloads. And I got a book deal and I've gotten to meet people like you, Howard Schultz, who created Starbucks and Barbara Corcoran and Brian Grazer who made all those movies like splash and a beautiful mind. And I've gotten to meet people like Mandy Moore and Bobby Brown and Jenna Fischer from the office. And the show has really crossed a lot of different industries. But the, the thing that is the same is that everyone who's been on the show began an endeavor without knowing the how.
And it was a passion project. It was the kind of thing. They really wanted to figure out how to give to the world. And then they did. And so now I teach classes to people and help them figure out how to build their business. And I'm obsessed with it. I mean, dude, is that not? Do you ever look and go, Whoa, how am I sitting here? Like, do you feel like it's surreal that you're even sitting in this position right now, a hundred percent like 15 million downloads. Kathy could, can you even wrap your mind around that? No, I cannot. I don't even get it. Even if it was a hundred thousand, it's like, I don't get it. Look at how many subscribers we have consistently and how many human beings. And sometimes we go out and somebody says, are you Cathy Heller? I know you're on the show.
Let's take a picture. And I'm like, that's so cool. You know, like that, I'm able to, you know, I'm just sitting here like you like in my pajamas talking about my, like you're talking to a microphone, but it's completely changed our lives. You know, we we've been able to do stuff. My husband and I, he was able to quit his job completely. We were, we were able to send my kids to like these really progressive, creative, wonderful, mindful schools, where they doing meditation and weaving and looming. I mean, how fun to have that ability and buy a beautiful home and take the kinds of vacations that as a kid were totally out of reach for me and my husband, we both came from very humble means. So it is surreal, but I believe so much that God does not make extras. And he loves us so much more than we love ourselves.
And I think he is asking us all the time when we say to ourselves, who am I to do this? Yeah. I think his question is, who are you not to do it? I'm so sorry. If you have that gift, I didn't create that in you to keep it to yourself. You are morally obligated. I need you, or you wouldn't be here. Let's go. So that is my, so it's like, while it's surreal on one level, I'm like, we're all a masterpiece. We are a piece of the master. And for me to have thought that I would do anything less than Epic is to look at his face and say, you don't know what you're doing. That is a lie. That is a joke. And we forget that this is what's really going on in the world. Cause we can't see it with our eyes except we can feel it. You can't see gravity, but boy is it, is it real? There's nothing more real than that. There's nothing more real than the synchronicity that occurs. When step into the flow of your purpose, it's like walking into the sea and it splits, you do your work and he will meet you there.
I literally spend all of my time doing those things and finding it true in my own life. And then interviewing people every week. Who were telling me that they had the courage to not know and to try and to go in search of how to serve. And they were met with incredible opportunities because we don't have to be perfect. We just have to be available. I know I feel the exact same way. I'm always saying to my community, I'm like, just take the steps and God will lay the path. There's infinite hundred percent infinite blessings waiting for you. The clients have already been chosen the right there. You know, it's like, it's all there. You just have to walk so courage. I love it. I heard you talk about your launches and I want to give the girls some tactical.
I'm obsessed with launching. The girls that listen to this show. So my community has podcasts and they're launching podcasts left and right. So I would love to hear what are two tips Kathy, that you think are most critical in launching something, whether that be launching a podcast or launching an online course, what would you say is like the biggest, the biggest thing is it having the funnel? Is it the organic hype people call me the organic hype queen. So I'm all about that, but I don't love those two words put together.
My thing would be intimacy. Okay. Sales isn't it's not closing a sale. It's opening a relationship, right? It's it's an intimacy. It's an intimacy thing. So we live, we live in a time where there is such an empathy deficit. Okay. And so what we need to be doing, the only thing we need to be doing in my, in my opinion, it's not about the fancy funnel. It's not about the best slides. It's not about the perfect amount of information. Okay. People have a lot of information that they have access to. They don't need it to do list. They needed to done list. They don't need more things that are like, look at me. They need like, come with me. So what I like, I'm a real big fan of five day challenges. I like the implementation factor,
Hers over a five day period, rather than a webinar.
She's like, let me give you a big firehose of something. Doesn't give me much room to see you. It doesn't give me much room to engage. And in one shot, I've got to do my best to convince you that I know something versus come spend five days with me. Let me give you some baby bits of homework. Let me really see you. Let me really engage with you every day of that challenge. Let me show up consistently at the same time live. Let me interact with you. Let me give you a piece of homework, leave it up for 24 hours. Then when I come back on the next live, I respond to it. Do a little giveaway for people who did it, give people some accountability. And then at the end, what happens is we know from physics that an object in motion stays in motion.
So when I've brought people through starting to take action, when I brought people to a point where they feel seen and we've created a relationship now at the end, when I bring them into this invitation of, would you like to come with me for a longer experience? There's so much more that's already been created. It's an, it's an actual, they've gotten a a hundred percent free experience of what it's like to have me show up consistently for them. They've started to see what happens to them. When they're given accountability, they've started asking some questions that would lead them to the program, being the answer to whatever the homework is that I'm giving them. And they start to really feel seen, right? So I'm a really big fan of dialing in a five day challenge. And I teach that to people because I think if we, if we can do something like that, it's so powerful and everybody's capable of it because it just, it requires empathy and presence.
You don't need slides. You don't need to be the master of the, you know, whatever people really more than anything want to feel seen. And I would say people should be getting on that as, as quickly as possible. So what would you say Kathy, to the person that doesn't have an audience to fill a five day challenge with? Because for me, I could be like, Oh yeah, I'll pop on the show. I'll talk about the five day challenge. I'll fill that thing like crazy. And it wouldn't be an issue if you already have a following our community. But what about the women that are like, I'm starting from scratch or I just have a few people, how do you fill it? Do you have to spend money on ads to fill a five day challenge? So what's really cool is that you don't. And I want to back up from it and say, I was able, my very first launch ever, I made $147,000 that came from wanting to do some kind of event, which at the time, I didn't know, five day challenges from anything.
So I created a webinar. The webinar was just me going live to camera. It didn't have any slides. And 1,040 people showed up out of nowhere. Now, how does that happen when you back up and reverse engineer, if I want to put on the calendar that I'm gonna do a five day challenge or a webinar, whatever the thing is, I'm going to back up and say between now and that day, that's on the calendar. I need to connect with people who don't know me and make some deposits in to them so that it leads up to this next event, right? The bigger event, the deeper work, the more value with human beings, we have to make deposits. How would you think that you could go to the bank and withdraw from account that's empty, right? It doesn't work so psychologically. They know from research that for every seven deposits with a person that's when you can make a withdrawal.
So would you ever walk over to the neighbor who just moved in and say, hi, Fred, I live next door. Would you take me to the airport? Right? You be a psychopath, but maybe if over the course of a few months you made seven deposits. Hi, how are you here? As the PI welcome. Then the next day you're like, Oh, we're having a barbecue with all the people on the block. And I wanted to invite you over time. Naturally organically. If it came to like, I need help with something Fred, and I know you're going to be here. We're going on vacation. Would you mind bringing in the garbage can. It feels very appropriate to ask cause there's been a deposit. So it's, it's in a context. So sales is all intimacy. It's all empathy. So when I first did my very first challenge, my very first one, my very first webinar, it's all what I'm saying.
Now, if I put it on the calendar, I would back up and say, what am I going to do between now? And then to make those deposits that they would be willing to take their time and come to the next level of engagement, which is this webinar, the challenge. So first things first is I'm going to start putting out in the world who I am and what I do, right? Marketing is communication. It's clearly communicating. This is who I am and this is what I do. Okay. So we're going to start with that on your Instagram. We're going to start with that with a few humans. Like I did in my living room with those songwriters every day, you give yourself a measurable goal. I'm going to DM three people three and see if they would like to get a little value around this thing that I do, whatever this thing is.
If I'm doing mindfulness teaching or cooking classes or telling people how to make sourdough bread or how to organize closets, who might, I already know, that's three people who might want to organize a closet. They can take me on zoom into their closet. We can do a little bit of, of that session. You start with three people. I'll tell you why. On average, every person has 350 Facebook followers. These are average numbers. Most people have more. You're going to be like you guys listening are like, not me. I've lived in hundreds. Of course you did. Word of mouth is the way business grows. Let me give you an example. It doesn't matter how much money a studio spends to advertise it. A movie. As soon as you hear from three friends that it's bad, you're not going, Oh gosh, that's so true. So true. So it's word of mouth.
There is nothing that can overcome word of mouth, especially today. When you can Yelp review, you can post something on Facebook about, but the opposite is also true. So if you don't want to spend the money on Facebook ads and you really want to create a actual audience, not followers, but customers, you want the warm people anyway. Right? So to do a challenge where you're thinking, okay, if I'm going to do that in six weeks, that's my goal. I would like to get a warm group in there of like 79 people. All right. So I'm going to start with three people. See if I can serve. Meanwhile, every day, I'm those on my Instagram feed. I'm sharing value. I'm being really clear about what it is. I love what it is. It excites me what it is. I can help with some tips, giving away, giving it away.
I'm also going to put in my Instagram bio a link to like a freebie, like a download, which is another deposit, right? I'm trying to get to those deposits. Check them off before the withdrawal, before the ask, before the invitation, I might then share that with the few people every day on Instagram ideas and say, this is helpful to you. It wouldn't mean so much to me. If you shared it, I will actually send you like a Starbucks gift card if you shared it, because it would really mean so much to me, but only if you think it's helpful every time you do an Instagram post, don't just post something. Ask a question, a really easy question to answer like, Hey guys, right now I'm talking about sales or parenting. Whatever your thing is, type this emoji. If you agree with this type, this, make it fun, make it easy, get the engagement.
And then here's the deal. Respond to their comments and ask another question. I totally agree. My morning was also like that. Say more about that. Just say, say more about that or DM then every day, measurable goal drop a few other people. A voice note. I saw your comment. It meant the world to me. I totally five a day. I'm not talking. What I'm saying to you, Stephanie is that there are small measurable, doable things we can do every day. And then there's the next call to action. It would mean a lot to me. If you enjoy that, would you share that? Okay, now you start letting everybody know I'm doing this challenge. I'm doing this challenge. And for the next several weeks, you're letting everybody know it's coming. It's coming, it's coming. You're leading up to that. You'll get people in there. And then you show up for those people and you rock their world.
Now, even if you get 11 people to wind up buying this thing, you invest in their results and you show up and you say, this is going to be the best thing. I'm going to care so much. I'm going to engage so much asking them, what do you need? What more, what? This Cotter colder up down. Where do you want me? Your back scratch. Like, you know, you ask, well, that's it get their feedback the next time you do it, it sells itself. I hope you guys are taking notes. I think Kathy, one of the biggest things you said that hit me was your T your, your compound depositing. So you hear the comment, you see the comment and here we are. We reply within Moji. Thanks like that's not depositing. So Kathy said, you message. The people commenting with a voice DM. You've now voiced to him his life.
And now you're calm, pant compound growth depositing, right? Like I am obsessed with that. And I also love the idea, Cathy of, I think that we get so focused on these huge, we think that to make a big launch successful, it's about having hundreds of people in the five day challenge. But what you're saying is it's about having a quality relationship with, with people that trust you. And even if it's a handful of people, our conversion is going to be through the roof because they already love us. We've deposited. And I think that's the mindset change that people need to have serve the few really extremely well and stop trying to sprinkle to the thousands. It doesn't work. Yeah. So thank you. I think that was so that advice was amazing. I'm so glad that you feel that way. I love giving that advice because it makes so much sense to me and I've learned it just through the doing of it.
Right. And what you just said. I want to take out a highlighter and circle because so many people, if I ask them, would you rather have 400,000 followers on Instagram or 40,000? They're all going to say 400,000. That means they don't really get business because it's about the depth of the engagement and the quality of the relationship. It's not about how wide there's a difference between customers and followers. There's a difference between people going like that's cool. And people really feeling served on a deep level. So if you look at my Instagram, you'll see like, Oh, she has about 40,000 followers. But look at the feed, right? 2300 likes 265 comments. That's what you want. You don't want to go look at other, go do yourself a little favor, go look at people with big accounts and look at the engagement. Because if the engagement isn't there, it's not helping your business.
It's actually hurting your business because it's diluting the people who are in your algorithm. And then the people who really need to see what you're doing. Won't see it anyway. And the quality of the, the intimacy is, is very shallow, right? You just don't have that much depth inside of all those conversations. And that's going to hurt your business. I want people to hear me when I say I started the music program before it was called six figures. So I'm writing, I still do it. I have a team now that helps me run that while I do all the other things. That program was started before my podcast, before my email list, before anything. So what I want people to hear is $1 million launches before there were millions of downloads, because if you're selling a program that's 1997 or 29 97, and you're going deep, we're talking about in the entire universe of 7 billion plus people, you needing 200 people, 300 people, and that's a million dollar launch.
Most people listening would be pretty happy with 150 grand, which means I need like 50 people. Right? And if you ask yourself, can I find 50 people who would be excited about me going deep and really helping them not learn, but implement. We also have to understand when we're selling stuff. So sales is service and what people want is that implementation, not the information, the implementation. So I would say lean into the offer, being around the high touch aspects, the implementation aspects. And I have a lot of fun ways that I do that in my program because the information won't get them, the result you can tell them exactly what to do. Think of how many people have Rachel Ray's cookbooks and they can't make the souffle. But if she walked into the kitchen, they would make it cause she would go, no, no, no.
Take out the bowl. Now mix it, mix it again. Okay. Do you see that? You see that fluffiness, that's what you want. Now put that in now they're cooked in, right? So we need to really get that aspect. And I think that that's what people are looking to hear. Please, don't sell me another piece of information. That's going to sit on my desktop. Please help me to move into this and to get it completed and to tablets transformation. And I think especially now in this moment, what you're teaching and what I'm teaching, it is so crucial. Like everyone's going to need to pivot and to really get the intimacy factor so they can stand apart from the noise. And I think right now these is specific kinds of tools that we teach of utilizing the online space. When would it have been a better time to master that?
I'm with you. I love it. And I love that concept of go deep. Don't go wide implementation over how to I love all of that. Can we talk about your podcast now, Kathy? Like, because I teach podcasting, it's my number one. I have a course on it. It's my number. One thing that I do aside from the clarity coaching, I asked the girls what they wanted to ask you. So I have some questions for my community and I think that these will be fun for you. So you started your show three years ago, three or four years ago. Three years.
January, 2017. Yeah. And you have 15,000 downloads, right? Million, sorry, million million with an M. Yeah. That's what I meant. And then was there a point Kathy, where like, was it like,
And then an exploded or were you seeing like compound growth from the beginning? Was there a moment that it crossed this line? It was a little bit of both. I'll tell you what is like, we just started with a wing and a prayer. You know what I mean? Like, just be, again, it was like sitting in my closet, recording in my old house. I didn't know who the heck would listen. I didn't have a list to send it to, you know, it was just doing my thing. And so it was what I said before really is, is a big piece, is the word of mouth. When I talked to me about podcasting and I also have had a course in some of my, my program is also around podcasting because I think it's such an incredible lead generator. I tell people that podcasting is 20% the show and 80% everything around the show.
And I think for me, I always had this understanding that it would be person to person, to person. And so I thought right away, how can I involve the listener so that they will talk about it so that they will feel seen by it? So, one thing I would encourage people to do is bring your listeners into the show because right away I was like, we need them in the show. They need to feel like it's their show. So I'm like, send me your letters. Have you ever left your job? Have you ever started a side hustle? What's been your creative pursuit. I started reading the letters. I started asking people to join a private free Facebook group, share what you're working on, share your work, not sell your work, but share with us, take a picture of your hand lettering, take a picture of the soap that you may talk about.
What's your struggles. People started to love that. And then I would share about it. And then they would be like, Oh my God, this podcast is my life. It's helping me so much. I told my friend [inaudible]. So that was great. And that was like slow and steady, like compound growth until Apple featured us. And when I say featured, you know, sometimes they do like a new and noteworthy, which is a really lovely feature. But sometimes you get the really big feature, which is on the very top of the iTunes podcasting page. They'll put like seven shows on this carousel that go around and around and they featured us and we were up there and they keep it up there for a week. Now, 75% of all podcast listeners come through Apple and take their suggestions really seriously. Now that is an interesting thing because I connected with Apple at podcast movement.
I met the folks at Apple in the lobby and I wasn't sure I was going to go to podcast movement and I wasn't sure I had anything to offer or whatever. And it's interesting how you take those steps and then you think it's like a fluke right place, right time. But it also is interesting how, when you're sitting next to someone in the lobby, who's wearing a tee shirt who looks like they could be anyone and you lean in and ask them, what's going on? Are you liking the conference? Where are you from? And you're talking about Illinois and the fact that your husband's from Illinois and he loves the Cubs and your favorite pizza place. And do you know Kaufman's bagels? Oh, my husband's started that. That's his fam, not him personally. That's his family's bagel place. And you start to have a conversation with a really lovely guy in a tee shirt and jeans.
He's from Illinois and you care and you ask them what they're getting out of it. And you're very positive and you're very much a listener. And then it turns out they run the podcasting department at Apple and you realize it pays to be very nice to people. And then you ask for nothing, you literally ask for nothing and you have no agenda. And you say nothing about what they can do for you, because you're so clear that that would be so inappropriate. So you don't, and then you move on with your life and then you think to yourself, huh? That was really nice for me. I wonder if like, you know, anything come to that. And then, you know, you notice that your, your, your show, you see someone listening to your show and like talking about your show and your DMS and you go, Oh, wait, that person has a regular profile, but I know that guy, that's that guy.
And then he says, I really liked it. I checked it out and I loved this and this. And you go, thank you so much. And then you ask questions. What are you guys need right now? What does Apple want to share? And you realize they want to share that people can make things on their own. You realize that everything that Apple stands for is creativity and DIY make your own songs, make your own podcasts. And you go, Oh my God, this is good. And then you lean in further, right? And you think, how can I be a better podcaster? How can I make better content? What content might they need? And you keep going along and boom, you get featured. Now I'll tell you what, there've been a lot of podcasts that get that feature and they don't sustain their shows. That is a huge it's a big opportunity, but not everybody is able to sustain it cause they can feature you.
But then the show has to provide, it has to deliver. I'm not going to name names. Cause it wouldn't be kind. But I know a couple people who were actually famous celebrity type people whose shows were featured the same week as my show. And then like I found out they didn't have a show anymore cause I didn't have enough listeners. So I would say that was a big moment, but I think we wrote it into the sunset and and yeah, I mean, it's just been amazing. What wound up happening was they became fans of the show and we've been featured many times now. I think six times we've had that main page feature and and we chosen, you know, as like the most inspiring show by them two years in a row it's been pretty amazing. Like we seem to find that every January they do a big splash on how our show gives people really a good a good new year's sort of thing to shoot for.
So that makes me really happy that we're providing something that they think is valuable and you know, and, and, and in between we're seeing the growth, the compounding growth. So I think all of that has helped. Yeah. Wow. That's a crazy story. I love it. And I feel like those moments are so divine intervention at its finest, but hundred thousand percent. It's what we do with it though, because there's, you could have easily been like, Oh, you're from Apple. Oh, well, by the way, you know, and like hit him up. But I love the concept of, again, it's just like service and having this real true heart of relationship building and going deep and look what it did for you. It's beautiful. And the truth is that was my entire music world. You know, when I was first getting songs on TV shows, I would like send cupcakes to NBC and be like, thank you for supporting indie artists because I just found such and such song because you guys, it's not about how many Facebook followers these artists have or how many Spotify play as you.
You, you showcase music just cause it's really good. And people were touched by that. And then they would write me back like a, B G always be generous today. Are there any people you could give something to with no agenda. And that's really what we were just talking about in terms of building the business, like make the deposits, give it away, give it away, give it away now, like give it away and show up. You will never have to worry about your business. You will never have to worry about your success. You'll also feel good because the opposite of depression is purpose. You know? Like that's what we all want anyway. So you you're in control of that. Yeah. That's amazing. So then my last question on your podcast, Kathy, is how did you start getting these amazing guests on your show? Cause I know sometimes for my students, they have a lot of fear around asking up, they think, Oh, that person's too fancy for me.
Yeah. Frayed. Do you have any strategies for them on how do they make that more authentic? How do they decide when they have the caliber to go after maybe a certain level a guest would add value? Well, two things I want to say, one thing is our most downloaded shows do not correlate with how fancy the person is. Our most downloaded shows are solo episodes. When I was like no household name to like most people still, if you, if you round it up to the nearest, nearest millions, most people have no clue who I am. So I'm not a household name at all. So that's number one. Number two, the second most downloaded episodes are people who aren't famous, but the title of the show hits the solar plexus of what people are struggling with. So we have a show about imposter syndrome. We have a show with Sarah Knight, who's an author and we titled it.
How to live life on your terms. People I think really want to do that. So they clicked on that one and they liked it. The third, most popular episodes are episodes where I'm actually giving people like tactics and things to do. And the fourth, most downloaded episodes have to do with how famous the person is. So please hear that. Secondly, when you're reaching out to people, it's about massive action. You got to take a lot of action and LA let's say for every 20 emails you send, one person will say yes, but that is a lot. Cause if you sent 20 emails three times a week, you're going to get three yeses. That's great. So I would say in those emails, I wouldn't talk about myself. I wouldn't send four paragraphs that lists every accomplishment I've had since second grade I would be a human.
I would write a letter like I would to a friend. I would be very casual and very sweet and very personable. And I would say, I'm a mom when I'm not podcasting, I'm listening to the frozen to soundtrack and I love your work. And I'd love to have a chat about what you're up to. I know you're super busy, no rush on reply. If you happen to respond, I will literally dance in my kitchen and probably, you know, freak out. But really please don't worry about it. I know how crazy life is right now and all of that. I just want you to know you've always been a role model to me. And then I would ask one specific question. This will only take 10 seconds. If you had to answer something super fun and super easy answer. What was the, what was the, the quote that stayed with you most in your life?
Which book has had the biggest impact? Something that people like responding to and something that is easy to answer, you will get responses and then you can go back and be like, Oh my God, I also love spicy tuna or, Oh my God, I love that quote too. Or yeah, that is my favorite movie. Remember this part now you're in a relationship. The goal in sending any email is not to actually get the thing completed with an agenda. It's really just to get that volleyball coming back and forth because then now you're in a relationship when people have relationships, whatever supposed to happen organically does. So your goal is not, I gotta get one email across to a person I've never talked to and literally get the thing I want from them. No, I'm just hoping to connect with them. I'm hoping to do something that breaks up all the same business type noise that they get all day long in their inbox and they go, this was refreshing.
Boom, there's a reply. Now we have a back and forth. Now from that, there's a, there's something that's starting to come together. And I believe that at that point you will start to see that you're going to get some yeses. So that's what I did. That is priceless advice. I love all. Thank you, Kathy. I know the girls are gonna just be like, Oh my gosh, this is all so good. Yay. Well obviously tell us about your podcast and your, and where can people find out more about ms. Cathy Heller and go check you out. You got you're so good at what you do. You're adorable. I am podcast is called. Don't keep your day job. I wrote a book it's also called don't keep your day job. I think now more than ever, people are going to be asking themselves that question.
They might not be able to go back to their day job, which is very hard. And this is a very painful time. We need to learn some mindfulness to be compassionate to ourselves and, and have some, some tools to, to, to be with this tremendous anxiety that we're all feeling. And while that's true, like most things are not one dimensional. There's a huge opportunity to say what maybe is really essential for me. What maybe is in alignment with my gifts. What maybe am I going to start a podcast? A course, a a membership thing online for people to knit together. Like there's so many opportunities here. God doesn't play dice with us. So there must be something beautiful that we just can't see that like a parent he knows is better. So I would say you can find the podcast or listen to podcasts. You can find me on Instagram at Cathy dot Heller. Cathy's with a C and a, and I'm always around. Like I keep trying to come up with whatever free content and stuff I can give. So it's there for you if you need it. Thank you. This has been such a beautiful conversation, Kathy. I'm so appreciative of you and your time and same to you so grateful for you. Thank you so much. Oh, it's so my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Love and light, Stef.
Lots of fancy unused education. Podcast Coach, Clarity Coach, & Top #25 Ranked Podcast Host for Christian Entrepreneurs.